dwgm | Mood: Depressed

Current Mood: depressed

Mood: Depressed

My dear ones, I know you don't remember the helpless disillusionment of the '60's and early '70's. You will perhaps say that no, we weren't helpless, that the war was protested strongly. Yet it went on and on anyway, as you know, and it was later revealed that our leaders, people who supposedly cared for us and our country, concealed information, distorted information, let themselves turn a blind eye to truth that might have spared the lives of so many.

In many ways the world is a better place than it was a hundred, or even fifty years ago, and I try to keep that in focus to fuel the optimism that seems much more natural to me than despair. But human nature is what it is, and there are too many people who still consider violence, and particularly large scale violence, to be a viable solution to life's problems, and too many people who allow themselves to be sucked in by a shiny package of lies and propaganda and false patriotism. It breaks my heart. This country can be great, in very many ways it is great, but we need to look at ourselves with clear vision and see ourselves as citizens of the World, not just as Americans.

I generally try not to think of this stuff much, as it does provoke such a feeling of helplessness. However,

firesignwriter posted this link, and I could not remain silent.

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we just have to hope that if we all speak, vote, and send out thoughts and intentions for peace and understanding, that it will eventually make a difference. In fact, when I feel hopeless, a good source of hope is the great Jane Goodall... she has more reason than anyone to have no hope for all the terrible wastes and horrors in life, having seen so much of it and knowing about all the details of environmental waste in particular, and she still finds hope. She wrote a book about it, called, appropriately, "Reason for Hope"... I highly recommend it. One of her sources of hope is young people... which is why she has 'roots and shoots' programs to encourage young people to act for the betterment of humans and animals on this planet. The young people might not help us much in this election, since they can't vote yet, but... maybe they can convince their parents, and maybe enough energy put in the right place will make a difference eventually. I also recommend the film "What the #$*! do we know!?"... it has a lot to say about the power of thought and intention.

I have to hope that it will improve. I know there is good in people, even in people afraid of looking at the other side of the story. I know what you mean about feeling helpless... I just can't let myself feel that way. It's sort of like the way I prevent myself from getting sick... I have faith in the strength of my body and my immune system. (I do also try to get enough sleep and good nutrition) I have to have faith that we will become, collectively, better than we are. *hugs*

I am, in general, as I said, an optimist, and I believe things ARE getting better--I was at the Goodall talk too, remember, but she was only reiterating what I feel is true in the first place. Individuals can make a difference, can make the world a better place, each in their own way.

The war and the complacent and even approving attitude of much of the public and press toward it is what makes me ANGRY. As far as I'm concerned there are people dying over there because of oil and Bush's connections with that industry. And yet he is ahead in the polls.

No, I don't despair for humanity. I am close to despair at the willingness of the American public to be taken in by the powers-that-be, and by the media, and at the attitude of 'My Country: Love It Or Leave It' that seems to be equated with support of this war.

How soon they forget.

well said, I think. (I forgot that you were there with us, sorry! then my reference will serve to enlighten those who haven't yet heard her words)

and I definitely know what you mean. This country does sort of appear to be going to Hell in a handbasket, in some ways. but actually, the fact that much of the world hates Bush is almost reassuring... the rest of the world recognizes that this is a needless waste of life, money, effort, etc. It's just our own country, held in the thrall of publicity and as you say, a sort of fervent and blind patriotism which is frightening and destructive (in my opinion) that can't see the waste of it all. I wish there was a way to change the media... more people should watch the Daily Show with Jon Stewart. They've got the media's number, and they make ruthless fun of it. it certainly makes me feel better to watch it!

One more reason to move to Canada >.

LOL! Sometimes I think so, too. But there is much to love about this country, and the ideals that caused it to be established are still laudable ones. We have some growing up to do, though, for sure.

I'm sitting here eating popcorn, trying to figure out how best to speak, since I am known for not being able to keep silent when it comes to political and social debate. LoL.

First of all, I want you understand that I am, in NO way, angered or disappointed in anyone for their views and beliefs. *shrugs* I'm one of those "to each his own" people, but I'll debate and defend my views -- sometimes not with wholly intelligent answers. LoL.

I am 24, working full-time, living hand to mouth, a member of the "fanatic" religious right and a registered Republican who drives a POS car with a recycled Bush bumper sticker. I plan on voting for him in this election because I cannot, in good conscience, vote for Mr. Kerry, for a variety of reasons.

Please don't flame me. I get enough flack for my bumper sticker. *rolls eyes*

As to the war in Iraq, I did fully support going in. I still do, and my reasons were never about WMD; it was motivated by compassion for a people living in opression. What sickens me, though, is the American attitude. We take life for granted. War is a terrible thing, and we act so blase about it... Civilians killed and we don't care. We are a nation at war, and you'd never know it by walking the streets in our cities. It saddens me that we are so wrapped up in our own little continent here that we don't care about the people beyond our borders.

Now I can't always agree with the methods we use while in Iraq, and I know our forces and leaders are jumpy, but such blatant disregard for life -- and I see it in both camps -- hurts me.

We need to realize we are at war. We need to start acting like a country who cares about those beyond our borders. But we also need to protect ourselves and our interests. Admittedly, its a difficult tightrope to balance.

Kellenanne's two cents... take it, leave it, flame it... *shrugs* I just htought I'd stick in a slightly different viewpoint.

cheers!

I plan on voting for him in this election because I cannot, in good conscience, vote for Mr. Kerry, for a variety of reasons.

I promise not to flame you, but you've really got me curious (and I'll admit, upset) with this line, because I've heard it in a few places (from Republican friends and family) and can never seem to get a straight answer from anyone about it. What is it about John Kerry that offends your conscience? Does nothing about the Bush administration's actions at home and abroad offend you?

I would certainly not flame anyone for their opinion. My cynicism about and disillusionment with politics began at an early age, and I don't make a point of following it closely enough now to even make a completely informed choice between candidates. I don't think you can believe a lot of what any of them say in the first place. To a great extent, they are actors, and spokesmen for the interests that fund them in their bids for power.

I never supported Bush, but one thing that turned me against him shortly after his election was his address to a university graduating class in which expressed pride in attaining the presidency in spite of a 'C' average in college. Unforgivable.

I agree that there is oppression of human rights in Iraq. There is oppression of human rights in many countries around the world. So what makes the Middle East so special? I'll give you three guesses.

*laughs* Three guesses? I only need one hon... Oil is a hot commodity, I will grant you that.

I have followed politics closely; it is one of my, I don't know, hobbies... passions... Neither of those words are right... but its the best way I can describe my political involvement. And I take my due share of pride in it, being a younger person who is aware and voting. (Ok, some people, based on my political leanings, may dispute the "aware" part... LoL)

cheers,Kellen

*sigh* You just have to go and make me think. LoL.

A lot of my decision to vote for Pres. Bush is based upon socio- and economic views and some of it is strictly Democrat vs. Republican. (That's not to say I vote strictly Rep. all the time; I have voted Democratic on occasion when the situation calls for it. If, say, I can truly identify better with the Democratic candidate.) I am a country girl at heart, a preacher's daughter who identifies more with the farmer than the manager. While that's not exactly pertinant, it does give you an idea of my background, and I know that factors heavily into my motivations and beliefs.

For a completely general answer, I subscribe more to the idea of less government, less control and the economy will slowly regain its feet. While upping taxes is a quick fix to an ailing economy, it does nothing in the long run except to hurt the people who are reaching deeper and deeper into their pockets. I used to live in one of the most heavily taxed states (Oregon) and, don't it beat all, but Oregon also trailed in economic growth. They tried upping taxes again, which led to many small businesses closing up or moving out and more jobs were lost and more money was lost, so they upped taxes again. I moved out because I could not possibly pay.

Now I know that that's very, very general and not even really a pertinant issue this election year, but its part of my basis: Some of these heavily democratic states like Oregon are going down the drain when it comes to economic issues. Why subscribe to a vote for a man who holds the same beliefs that I believe ruined Oregon's economy?

I heartily supported America's involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq without the UN approval. We need to be able to stand on our own feet and take care of our own issues when the times call for it. And we did not go alone, and are still not alone. But, in keeping our own interests at heart, we cannot wait for UN approval for every move we make. I wholeheartedly agreed with presenting a case to the UN but frankly the US, I felt, had no good alternative.

Iraq would have been our next threat, and our next target, no matter who was in office. Whether it was now or later was the only question. Hussein had the power and the money and the opportunity to launch his own terrorist attacks against us in the next few years. I had wanted us to finish what was started twelve years ago, if only for the people of Iraq. Now that we are in Iraq, to pull out now would decimate the people. We can only leave when some sort of stability is achieved. It is a long term commitment; I don't think Mr. Kerry sees that. To change our approach now would plunge Iraq into disarray and turmoil, moreso than it already is.

Homeland Security, I'll admit bothers me, but I do see the need. I'm not sure, though how far to take it. I take very seriously my pride and my privacy. So, the addition of that layer of government, as well as its purpose, does frighten me, and I will admit that I am not sure if I agree with Pres. Bush on some of his HS policies.

And here's where I get into trouble: I, like I said, am a preacher's daughter and was raised in the Baptist faith, and have made a commitment to said faith. It shapes my thought processes and my beliefs. It is a huge influence on who I am.

I am pro-life, and I will gladly stand with anyone who is. It's an issue very close to my heart. I have never (knowingly) voted for anyone who was pro-choice because I feel I condone murder when I do. I am a supporter of the one man/one woman marriage amendment (Please don't hurt me; I've already been physically accosted for that...)

Yes, there have been things Pres. Bush has done that leaves me wondering and scratching my head saying "is this really who I want in charge?" but compared to my other choice and when held up with my own beliefs, the answer must be "yes".

Not very good answers, I'll admit. I typed this on-again, off-again in between piddling projects at work.

Not to creat horrible quantities of debate in my mother's journal, but I'm curious why you support an amendment that limits, rather than reaffirms, the rights of American citizens. Viewpoints on gays completely aside (I myself am a happily married bisexual), I shudder at the thought of anyone but me deciding who I am allowed to spend my life with, including who visits me in the hospital, inherits from me, and helps me raise my children. That is not within the rights I would give to any governement. What makes you see it differently?

may I also add that though Bush's ideology may agree with yours in principle, he has made the government larger, and he has imposed more restrictions/possible invasions of privacy than there were before... I second the comment that perhaps if you are dissatisfied with Democrats for ideological reasons, but perhaps have questions about Bush's actions, that you vote for a third party instead? Libertarians are good for the whole smaller government/less infringement on the individual's rights thing. (I have a good friend who was Republican but changed to be a member of the Libertarian party for exactly those reasons)... though I can't speak for their morals, etc. I guess I just feel like, if you don't like or you question his actions as president, that you shouldn't necessarily vote for him anyhow because his beliefs still match. there might be a better candidate out there for you? It's just a thought.

sorry; I had one other thing to say... I don't think Kerry advocates pulling out of Iraw unequivocally. My impression (I believe I read this on BBC World News) is that he wants to make the restoration a more international affair, and hopes to bring some of our troops home, but does not support leaving the country completely. I agree, it would be a very dangerous and chaotic thing for the Iraqui people. I think the same site said that Nader advocates that sort of immediate and total pull-out. I usually agree with the Green party on things like the environment or the issue ladymora's brought up above, but I do not agree with pulling out of Iraq in that fashion. besides, there's a sort of 'let's finish what we started' kind of feeling I have about it. I think Kerry does understand that... and also, I was told by my better informed boyfriend that Kerry has even said that he would have gone after Saddam, but that he would have gone about it differently. I guess on this issue, I feel like you are totally entitled to disagree with Kerry and not vote for him because he doesn't resonate with you (in fact, that's why I'm not voting for Bush) and his beliefs don't match yours, but do at least be clear on what he's actually said about specific things when you disagree with them.

(thank you Geek Mama for allowing debate in your journal.)

Just wanted to stop by and say hello now that I've started LJ. Still figuring out which way is up but getting there.

Read the articles you've pointed to and find the whole situation depressing. I am not an American but live next door. We are very closely tied to the US but there is much going on politically that is disturbing, even on a good day. The electoral process is boggling to us, the time, money and power jockeying is almost surreal, at least it would be if it didn't impact so many.

The "average" American is one thing, I've met many, many people that I've liked very much and many that I admire tremendously. Of course, there's always a few that aren't so nice but that's true of any group.

The politicians however are truly frightening, especially with the insular nature of their actions and professed values. The many incidents of double standards, regarding free trade for instance, are disturbing and destructive, also insulting to those who are supposed to be trading "partners."

By our standards, I would be described as a moderate left, but in the US I would be considered extreme left wing. I find it disturbing that so many in the US seem unaware of the rest of the world, that is not just my own observation but also from those living in the US. There is too much power wielded, at least in this era, to be so naive about other nations.

As for the current administration, it's almost beyond words. The faux pas demonstrated so often by George W. and Cheney defy description. They are bad enough when the remarks are isolated but when they are grouped together, the picture of this administration's leaders and their values is shocking in its display of ignorance and pettyness.

What I would like to know more about is the power behind the throne. Players like Karl Rove and those like him, that call the shots and put words in the mouths of the figureheads. There's so much going on underneath what we are allowed to see that needs to be brought to light. I don't expect that to happen and expect that Dubya will be living in the White House for another four years, assuming that they can keep AIDS out of the place. Dubya has refused to set foot in my country and I count that as a good thing even though I expect that we are being punished for our views on Iraq. Drat, now I'm depressing myself.

I hope that you're getting over the loss of the apple tree. Hopefully it's replacement will help ease things. Apologies for drifting into the politics.

Oh, do not apologize. Very glad to hear your take on the situation, actually.

I find it disturbing that so many in the US seem unaware of the rest of the world, that is not just my own observation but also from those living in the US. There is too much power wielded, at least in this era, to be so naive about other nations.

I couldn't agree more with this. There are far too many Americans, including many who have attained high office, who see our country as 'it' and discount the rest of the world as beneath real consideration. I find this to be appalling.

On a lighter note, have not resolved the tree issue yet, but hope to do so tomorrow. I'll be off work as it is Rosh Hashana and our district's schools will be closed.

Must friend you immediately. Hope you don't mind.

I would be delighted to be friended. I'm just getting used to this Live Journal business now that I have an account. So much to learn.

Sounds from your latest posts that things have improved a bit. That Good Earth restaurant you mentioned sounds very good, love to find yummy veggie recipes now that I've crossed over to the other side (vegetarian, that is). When we were camping through Alberta this summer, we saw a lot of cattle, especially the red and black Angus, in the lots near Brooks. That town's main industries are oil, cattle and meat packing. It's Canada's equivalent to Texas, good and bad. I saw all those big brown eyes staring at me and could say happily that they were in little danger from me. There are animal products in so many things that it takes time to figure out where they are, even something as innocuous as Jell-O is sneaky - the gelatin comes from animals.

Went to the dentist this morning as it's my day off, had to laugh. Sat in the chair and looked up at the tv and saw PotC had just started. They have a nice collection of films there which makes the experience easier. Also it's a glorious day here after quite a bit of rain and it seems the leak repairs in my wall are holding. It's not a good sign when you know all the construction crew on a first name basis and they stop and chat if they see you at the bus stop.

School this year is terrific and challenging. I'm only taking one course each semester but they are intense and with the same prof. We're doing Maya public art and ritual but a lot of what we are covering is current affairs and all. It's not like the Maya ever left. How the governments, armies, archaeologists, etc., exploit the area and the people is incredibly sad/disgusting/ and so on. There are so many levels and everyone has an agenda, whether they are aware of it in themselves or not. I had no idea we had so many Maya in Vancouver; I knew a lot of folks had come north to escape the troubles but wasn't aware of the Maya as a distinct group here.

Have to go register for the CIBC Run for the Cure. It's an annual event, growing like mad across Canada, and is to raise funds for breast cancer research. Last year we had over 12,000 just in Vancouver so it should be even better this year. It's held a bit after the Terry Fox Run so that should help fund more research into the cancers. The cost of research is minimal compared to the cost of treatment and all, not to mention the cost in human terms. Every bit helps and we are making progress.

Funny how this keeps turning into an essay. Can't resist. Time to go do something else, hate to waste such a gorgeous day. cheers. Rennie

So nice to hear about what you've been doing.

So you are a vegetarian! I had a friend growing up who was, but it was very unusual then. Now they're all over the place. We even have one friend who is a vegan: a real challenge to cook for.

Cracked me up (and made me envious) to hear about your dental appointment. How cool is that! My stupid dentist tacks a couple of posters on the ceiling and assumes that's sufficient. I'd change, but he's really skilled at what he does--I've never had a problem with pain after having work done.

I'm surprised about there being a Maya population in Vancouver. Wouldn't have thought it. But once the Spanish came over I suppose a lot of the native populations scattered.

Re: Run for the Cure--we have an event here too at about the same time, the Walk for Life. It's a 24 hour walk-a-thon held at one of the high schools. It's a big even here in Simi Valley.

Glad you're having good weather. We are too, and the pool is still warm. I think I'll go take advantage of that, right now.

Cheers!

Switching over to vegetarian has been pretty easy, all things considered. I'd already quit with the red meat due to arthritis, one meal wasn't worth several days of acute pain in the joints. Was able to go through the heart of cattle country in Alberta and across the prairies and not feel guilty when we passed all those cattle. We have a growing number of vegetarians at work, although we seem to have quite a few variations on the theme. Recipes are now the thing, in fact, the people in my office spend much time talking about food in some form or other. I hope to look in to your recipe journal for ideas. The goal is to be healthier and to reduce the risks for cardiovascular disease which has been rampant in my family for generations, especially on the Scottish side. Seems such a simple change to get so much benefit. Much better for the environment and farm workers too with the growth in the organics area. We're always being encouraged to think globally and act locally so this is one way to help.

As for the Maya, they never left their lands. They've been subjected to 5 centuries of subjugation, genocide, identity destruction and disenfranchisement but they are still there. The Maya we have in Vancouver are mostly from Guatemala; the genocides in the early 1980's, part of a long period of genocide, forced many to leave just to survive. One way they ahve been disenfranchised, not just the Maya, but all through the Americas, is to categorize them as "indios" not as Maya or whatever. This helps to discredit any land claims and such they have and is heavily fostered by the governments of the regions. There are so many levels of political, military, ethical questions that we will never get to the end of them. At least I have the luxury? of being in classes where we are made aware of these issues and to see with critical eyes. Marv's class could have subtitles from the X-Files quite easily, especially "Believe Nothing (at Face Value)."

Some of my student assistants have gone into International Relations and are off getting started trying to make a difference in the refugee situations and with land mines. These are bright youngsters and we've tried to encourage them to follow their goals but to keep a realistic view of who they will be dealing with, at all levels. My hat's off to them and any others who try to make a difference at whatever level they can.

We have a 24 hour run as well, it's held at Central Park, just a few blocks from where I live. Nice venue although those big fir trees make it a bit eerie late at night.

The weather has been mixed, we've set a new record for the wettest September and there are still 12 days left. We had almost 4 inches of rain Thursday night/early Friday morning and more is expected in a day or three. Can't seem to win, drought for most of the last two or three years now we have tons of the wet stuff. They had over a foot of snow up in the Peace River country too,looked just like Vancouver's snow, all wet and slushy. Yuck.

Glad your pool is still in use, I'm envious of that although I can swim at work. Had a peek into your daughter's journal, from something yours said. She sounds quite the character, Weemonkey that is. I gather she has a cockatiel called Ninnie-bird and they are learning how to live together. I have two cockatiels and both are spoiled rotten. The eldest will be 23 her next birthday and the other will be 11 next month. Squawk, that's the eldest, likes to sit on the hand that's over the mouse and she goes to sleep. If I move too much, then she pokes me one. She gets annoyed if I mouse too much so she sits on my knee or my shoulder then. I've never tried putting them into harnesses to take outside, neither of mine like to be constrained. I used to clip them but now that they are older, I have a screen door and am very careful with openings. They get more exercise this way and are in pretty good shape, especially Squawk.

Have to go do homework now as I've goofed off enjoying the weekend. Take care.

...we've set a new record for the wettest September and there are still 12 days left.

Wow! My older daughter,

ladymora, and her husband,

dr_mrow, went to Victoria during the first part of the month but didn't say anything about rain. You've really been getting hit! We could use some down her (as always), but I've been enjoying the warm weather and the pool. I think the weather's a little cooler today, though. Fall is arriving.

If you have any good vegetarian recipes, maybe you could find time to post them to

prettygoodfood.

ladymora is always looking for new ones, as am I.

Cockatiels are great, aren't they? At one time we raised them, and had lots of them.

weemonkey6 has moved back in with my Mom and me, and we are not only enjoying seeing her occasionally, but are having fun playing with her bird Ninnie, too. He's a sweetie.

Stay dry, and don't work too hard!

Good day to you all. Let me disclaim that I am here to "flame", "bait", or "troll" this discussion. If I do any of these, I apologize now. I am not very eloquent with my words most of the time. :)

First item I would like to mention. While there is one person or group that wants to hold power of some sort over another there will be war. I am not saying war is a good thing. Just that it is pretty much inevitable while there are still humans on this planet.

As for the ware in the Iraq and Afghanistan? I think it will be a long time before anything is settled while American presence remains in those regions. Do you always hold on to the bicycle as a kid learns to ride it? One day you have to let go and let them ride down the road or crash into the tree.
Meanwhile over in Africa there is some major evil mojo going down in Sudan. It seems most of the world is informed about what apparently is going on there. Here in America though it seems would could care less. The information is there to find out, but it is not on the news very much. The American government is staying out of the mess that is happening. Just this past week Colin Powell actually used the word genocide in speaking of it. Millions of people displaced from their homes. How many dead? Who knows? Thousands and thousands at the very least. Scary.

Second item: Politics. Such a dangerous topic for discussions (the other being religion ;) ). I think one of the biggest issues I have with it is this whole left-wing/right-wing thing. Democrat vs Republican. There are MANY other political parties out there to choose from. Odds are at least one of those "lesser" parties will match the ideology of most people. As kellenanne states: "I subscribe more to the idea of less government...". Immediately Libertarians (http://www.lp.org) jump into my mind. I think for our political system is dying. The rate is accelerating each year too. The "two-party" system is wasting away. We need an injection of new views and ideas. To give a fresh perspective to Americans.

Who will I vote for? Not Bush. He has done some good things, and a lot of not good things. The Presidential office is the head of our country. He should be representative of America. Especially to other countries. I particularly do not like other countries viewing us a idiots. Being articulate and charismatic (not the physical appearance type of charisma) are very good qualities a leader needs. Albeit, there have been leaders that are one or the other, and neither. Usually that is the exception though. Honestly, Bush does not inspire me, or fill me confidence. I would rather try another unknown. Not keep the known that does not work for me.

I think that is enough grump from me.

Hope all of you have a wonderful and delightful day!

Don't mind the comments at all, especially as we seem to be agreed on many points here, including the fact that politics is a hot-button topic for most people. There have been some interesting comments to my post, though, and discussion was civil, too.

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Mood: Depressed

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bit happier note?

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Sorry to intrude on this discussion

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