Oooh...Jack Sparrow Meta...
Sep. 16th, 2004 07:08 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
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torn_eledhwen won't be upset with me for quoting from her journal, but she made a comment that kind of went along with something I was thinking yesterday.
She did the "What Movie Hero Are You?" Quiz and answered cannily enough to be Captain Jack Sparrow, which provoked the following comment from her...
Is Jack Sparrow a hero, though? I wouldn't say so. Ultimately the guy's out for himself, rather than helping others. He's neither a hero nor a villain. He's just Jack.
So yesterday I was thinking about how everyone says Jack won't take action unless there's something in it for him, a prime example of this being his initial refusal to help Will go to Elizabeth's rescue, and then changing his mind when he realizes who Will must be and that there is profit to be had from the venture. But it seems to me that first refusal might have been because he just possibly was more than a little (if you will excuse the expression) pissed off at Will for preventing his escape and for being one of the many in Port Royal who assume that because he's a pirate he's a bad man. Seems logical to me, anyway.
Jack is, of course, a thief and a trickster by inclination, is not trusting of others from sad experience, and uses people to further his agenda when he can. But he's not a villain in the way that Barbossa is, for example. They are, as the writers say, the same thing only different; light vs. dark; two sides of the same coin. Hero and villain.
You can't deny Jack cut a heroic figure when he rescued Elizabeth. There was no way he could have known that she was the beautiful Governor's daughter; on the other hand he obviously realized he would be drawing considerable notice to himself by going to her rescue. But, though there were distinct disadvantages and no known “profit”, he did it anyway. Sounds pretty heroic to me. It's true that he subsequently threatens Elizabeth in order to escape, but considering Swann's immediate order to shoot him (after Jack's saved her life!) and Norrie's snarky sarcasm and intent to imprison and hang him, his actions seem justified: it's the "good guys" who are in the wrong, in this case.
Jack manipulates people and events to his own ends during the denouement, but he’s not just in it for himself, he’s trying to end the curse without Will being killed, if possible. He’s expecting to get his ship back, but he’s also aware that the evil pirates’ demise will be a desirable thing for everyone else in the Caribbean.
Maybetorn_eledhwen’s last bit should be altered to hero and villain, but her final words are certainly right: he’s just Jack.
torn_eledhwen won't be upset with me for quoting from her journal, but she made a comment that kind of went along with something I was thinking yesterday.She did the "What Movie Hero Are You?" Quiz and answered cannily enough to be Captain Jack Sparrow, which provoked the following comment from her...
Is Jack Sparrow a hero, though? I wouldn't say so. Ultimately the guy's out for himself, rather than helping others. He's neither a hero nor a villain. He's just Jack.
So yesterday I was thinking about how everyone says Jack won't take action unless there's something in it for him, a prime example of this being his initial refusal to help Will go to Elizabeth's rescue, and then changing his mind when he realizes who Will must be and that there is profit to be had from the venture. But it seems to me that first refusal might have been because he just possibly was more than a little (if you will excuse the expression) pissed off at Will for preventing his escape and for being one of the many in Port Royal who assume that because he's a pirate he's a bad man. Seems logical to me, anyway.
Jack is, of course, a thief and a trickster by inclination, is not trusting of others from sad experience, and uses people to further his agenda when he can. But he's not a villain in the way that Barbossa is, for example. They are, as the writers say, the same thing only different; light vs. dark; two sides of the same coin. Hero and villain.
You can't deny Jack cut a heroic figure when he rescued Elizabeth. There was no way he could have known that she was the beautiful Governor's daughter; on the other hand he obviously realized he would be drawing considerable notice to himself by going to her rescue. But, though there were distinct disadvantages and no known “profit”, he did it anyway. Sounds pretty heroic to me. It's true that he subsequently threatens Elizabeth in order to escape, but considering Swann's immediate order to shoot him (after Jack's saved her life!) and Norrie's snarky sarcasm and intent to imprison and hang him, his actions seem justified: it's the "good guys" who are in the wrong, in this case.
Jack manipulates people and events to his own ends during the denouement, but he’s not just in it for himself, he’s trying to end the curse without Will being killed, if possible. He’s expecting to get his ship back, but he’s also aware that the evil pirates’ demise will be a desirable thing for everyone else in the Caribbean.
Maybe
torn_eledhwen’s last bit should be altered to hero and villain, but her final words are certainly right: he’s just Jack.
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no subject
Date: 2004-09-17 01:45 pm (UTC)Now I'm even more nostalgic for you guys. Must. Stop. These. Feelings. I really must, or else give up on the LotR fandom for a while. *whimpers at thought of giving up Eomer, Eowyn, Faramir and Haldir for even a day* I've discovered that I'm a one-fandom-at-a-time girl. I get so immersed that I find there aren't enough hours in the day for more than one.
no subject
Date: 2004-09-17 01:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-09-17 02:21 pm (UTC)Isn't that the truth. I can't believe the amount of my free time that is taken up by this new hobby. I don't understand how others write in several fandoms. They must have more hours in their days.
no subject
Date: 2004-09-17 04:27 pm (UTC)You make some good points. I think saving Elizabeth probably is pretty heroic, except he knows he can swim and he thinks he can escape anything that comes along - which he does, till he meets Will. I don't think he does anything to be heroic - it's more doing what he thinks is right at a particular moment in time, and Jack's not the type to see a lass drown if she can be saved.
He's not a villain, really, except by dint of being a pirate and an outlaw. He's not a hero, except by dint of saving Elizabeth and helping her and Will.
I remain, therefore, convinced of my final words in that quote. He's Captain Jack Sparrow. Savvy?
:)
no subject
Date: 2004-09-17 04:54 pm (UTC)I don't think there are a lot of people who go around planning to be heroic. Heroes do what they have to do simply in order to get the job done, in spite of personal risk. They are not necessarily happy about doing it, but they see it as the right thing to do.
Re: his confidence that he can escape--one of the things the writers pointed out in the audio commentary was that Jack never escapes on his own. He always has help of some kind, whether it's run runners, blacksmiths, or cannonballs. Apparently he's learned to trust his luck over the years, as he never seems too upset by these little setbacks.
He's not a villain, really, except by dint of being a pirate and an outlaw. He's not a hero, except by dint of saving Elizabeth and helping her and Will.
Of course that's only within the context of the movie. Who knows what other heroics and villainy he's been up to before that? But that's what fanfiction is for, isn't it? Hee!
As you said, he is "just Jack Sparrow": one of the best characters ever created.
no subject
Date: 2004-09-18 02:02 pm (UTC)Me, I don't care whether he's a hero or a villain, a devil or a saint. He's enough just as Jack! ;-)
{Beats back pirate plot bunny}
Date: 2004-09-18 02:35 pm (UTC){Sighs in defeat.} I'll consider you, alright? Yeeeesh.... I need more hours in the day. I love this topic, I just hate that it has spawned a bunny while I'm here at work!
I do have to agree here. Jack is just "Jack", he's not your stereotypical hero, but neither is he your stereotypical villian, much less pirate. He's his own man with his very own tune that he sashays to, and he'll strike up a new tune when it suits his fancy. He's Han Solo to Will's Luke Skywalker, and the Pearl is his very own Millienium Falcon. {Fights off more bunnies.} Get away from my brain!!!!!
Although if you agree with the comparisons I just made, I have to ask... Does this make Mr. Gibbs, Chewbacca?
Re: {Beats back pirate plot bunny}
Date: 2004-09-18 02:47 pm (UTC)I do agree, and yes it does.
We all need more hours in the day, don't we? (I've been complaining about this since last December, when I started writing.) Then we could write the fics that demand it, and still have time for all the detail of RL.
no subject
Date: 2004-09-18 03:00 pm (UTC)I suppose it's possible he could have thought of that in the few seconds he had to debate whether to do it or not, but considering his prime objective in Port Royal was to steal a ship I doubt the possibility of a reward would have won out over the certainty of drawing the notice of everyone at that naval reception.
I don't care whether he's a hero or a villain, a devil or a saint.
We love him because he's all those things, don't we?